Interviewee: Cynthia (Cyndi) Caton
Interviewer: Leanne Tremblay
Category: Music
Genre: Punk Rock
Location: 222 Richmond St., Suite 201, Brown University Investment Office
Date: May 3, 2006
Length: 49:41
Word count: 8,754

[00:00:03]

LT: Alright, so if you wanna start off with your, um, full name and date and place of birth.

CC: Today’s date? Or… or just my place of birth, my date of birth?

LT: Just say your name and date of birth.

CC: Ok. My name is Cynthia Caton, people know me as Cyndi and I was born in Rhode Island. North Providence, Rhode Island, August 7, 1965.

LT: So have you lived in Rhode Island your whole life?

CC: I have, um, I’m a native. I never moved out. I’ve lived all over the state. You know, done some traveling outside of the country. But I have always lived in Rhode Island.

LT: So, what town did you grow up in? In North Providence?

CC: I grew up in North Providence, which is a suburb of Providence; it’s um, you know, a bedroom community. At the time there certainly wasn’t any industry there, people’d just go to live and then they’d work in the city or somewhere else. A very Italian population. I’m not Italian myself, but there’s a lot of Italians there.

LT: And so how many brothers and sisters do you have?

CC: I have a brother and a sister, I have a… we’re all three years apart, I’m the oldest, and then it’s my brother and my sister still lives in Rhode Island.

LT: So, um, what did your parents do when you were growing up?

CC: My mother, um, my mother at the time was working at Brown University. She worked in BioMed. And my parents were divorced when I was younger so I didn’t actually know my father growing up for most of my life. Um, my parents divorced when I was about five years old and I didn’t see him for about fourteen years. So at the time that I was in my formative years, in high school, I didn’t know him at all. Uh, he was a state trooper though. At the, uh, during those years, and uh, my mother was married to her third husband at the time, and… when I was in high school and he owned a jewelry manufacturing business in Providence.

LT: So, where did you go to high school?

CC: I went to North Providence High School and so I went to high school from 1979-1983 and I graduated, whoo-hoo! Um, it was a, I hated high school, with like a burning passion. Absolutely hated it, if I could erase those four years I would, um, it was a I, I didn’t really relate to anybody there it was very, this is gonna sound stupid, it was a very disco high school, it kind of, at the time it was really stupid. You know, Saturday Night Fever had come out and you were separated between what they called the Hicks and the Guidos. And um, I was with the, you would have considered a Hick, cause I was listening to rock n’ roll. It sounds really dumb, you know 20 years later to think about you know segregating friends around music lines, but there it was. And North Providence had, uh, a portion of it had an affluent community and I was in a middle class neighborhood. But there were some people who had a lot of money and so; some kids would be really dressed to the nines all the time. They’d be kind of poufied discoed out, and I just didn’t relate to that crowd, so therefore I had very few friends growing up and very few friends in North Providence. I actually can’t think of one female friend that I had, so uh, absolutely hated high school.

[00:03:07]

LT: So, what about after high school? What did you do next?

CC: After high school, I was um, you know, just kind of a lost soul, I think, you know it’s funny, I never got into drugs or alcohol or anything. But I was kind of a self-destructive person. I was looking for; I was just looking for something that was mine, something I could connect to. And um, I kind of fell into the um, punk rock scene, here in Providence, you know. When I hit 18, I discovered the Living Room, which is in a different place than it was know, you know and I just started going to these punk shows that were all ages and met groups of people there that I could start to relate to, probably because they were as self-destructive as I was. And um, just started doing that right after high school and was into the punk scene for several years and then just needed some direction in my life, so I joined the Air Force. And I was only in the Air Force through basic training and I had gotten injured and was out just after basic training was over, was just off on my merry way. I uh, and then I just started, I got a job at Brown and just started working different places.

LT: What do you mean you were self-destructive?

CC: Well you know, I think, um, because I didn’t have a good, I didn’t have really and strong friends in high school and I had started dating a guy who was physically abusive; he used to hit me. And because I didn’t go the kind of drugs and alcohol route, and kind of medicate myself, I think I just had a lot of rage against myself and my family. My parents saw what was happening and they didn’t really do anything to help me. They didn’t really prevent him seeing me or me seeing him, and sometimes he would hit me in our house and my siblings had witnessed it, and they never did anything to try and protect me. So I think I just had all this rage at like you know, 16, 17, I didn’t know what to do and so I didn’t turn anywhere, I just turned it inward. So when I found punk rock, there was this sort of thing we would do and it was called slam dancing. And it’s like the mosh pit and stuff, but at the time we always referred to it as slam dancing. And I used to go and just, you know, thrash my heart out all the time and I’d come home and sometimes I couldn’t move and I’d have bruises, you know, not just, because I was trying to get out all that aggression and I just didn’t know what to do with it. So, I was self-destructive that way. But also, really consciously trying not to go down the drugs and alcohol route, because I saw what it did to people and I thought it was just stupid and I couldn’t relate to them.

[00:05:41]

LT: So, then, punk rock was like an outlet for you.

CC: Punk rock was a big outlet for me and there was um, I loved the political messages behind it. You know the Circle Jerks, you know, they hated society, or you know, they weren’t you know, Republican. Which is, they were just on the fringes and trying to do something right for the world, or having an alternate statement that you didn’t really hear anywhere else, you know the internet wasn’t around. I didn’t know about; the Phoenix is a new paper, so punk rock was my way of connecting with people who are a little bit more radical and liberal.

LT: So then what were you doing for work at the time?

CC: At the time, I was, um, when I had just gotten out of high school, I was working; I was going to Rhode Island College. I went to Rhode Island College for a year and that’s when I really started getting into photography, even though I wasn’t an art major, or into photography at all, I was taking pictures and I had met a guy who showed me how to use the dark room there. And so I was in the dark room all the time, um, and then I was um, working as a waitress, um, six days a week. And pulling in like decent money at like a family restaurant. You know that was enough to like pay for camera equipment and film and go to punk shows and things like that.

LT: So, were you taking any photography classes or did you just teach yourself, basically?

CC: I, I just taught myself. I was really into painting. So I was taking a lot of painting and drawing classes for a long time and before I had gotten interested in photography I was really into painting. So I was doing a lot of oils and um, once I learned how to use a darkroom I immediately got myself an enlarger and had moved out of the house and had set up a room as a darkroom and I was always printing pictures, mostly of bands, and friends, and sometimes I would meet people in clubs; women. Like usually women. I would say can I photograph you? And I really just fell in love with mostly black and white. I got my portfolio here, which I brought today. Of, um, some of the bands that I took pictures of.

LT: We can take a look at that and talk about it if you want.

CC: Ok. Sure! This was um, this was a band called the Circle Jerks. And I think they were from California, I’m not sure. But this was at Lupo’s Heartbreak Hotel in, not in the place they are now, but the place before that. I don’t remember where all those streets are.

LT: I think they’re on Westminster, I think that before, they were on Westminister.

CC: I think so. I think it was probab—uh, I don’t remember. It’s where, before where they are now, the one just before that. Yeah. This was um, the lead singer of the Circle Jerks; I love this picture for a couple reasons. First, he had broken his back, so he’s in a back brace. He’s really kind of this short guy, and he’s all like, upright. I like this picture because you can see down his mouth into his tonsils. And this was a print that I did back in the 80s, so it’s really kept very well. And I also like this band Motorhead too, which is kind of a fun heavy metal band from England. And, um, this was a woman that I had met at a wedding in Providence and I asked her if I could photograph her. So we went to the Roger Williams Park, I think it’s over here, down where the big Roger Williams statue is, and I took her picture. She’s a beautiful person. And, um, this was Beavertail. I think, that Sara had put stickies on ones that I said were from Rhode Island. And, this was England, so I should probably skip this. This was also the Festival Ballet, which is located in North Providence at the time that I was taking pictures of them, but I think now they’ve moved their headquarters, but the Festival Ballet is a local ballet company and once I came back from the military I was just trying to figure out who I was and it was funny, I was gone for such a brief time, but when I came back I felt like punk was dead and there just weren’t bands coming around anymore. I dunno if the uh, music scene was shifting and at the time I was taking pictures I didn’t notice it, but when I came back it was like the scene was gone, it was really odd. So I still was like, very interested in photography so I started going to places with things that I liked to photograph and I would go and ask if I could take pictures. I had called then and said can I come and watch a rehearsal and take pictures of their performances and they would use them sometimes for their programs. It was a no pay job, but it was great. I was just really into black and white photography and stopping motion, you know, that kind of thing. Playing with uh, pushing film speeds. These are two little kids from England, when I was in England. These are two more pictures from the festival ballet. These are pictures from Rhode Island College. And then this was a young woman that I had met at a club, at the Living Room and asked if I could photograph her privately and she said I could. She had this weird kind of angular face and you know, she could contort herself in interesting ways. She was neat, and uh, this is a Renaissance Fair in Providence. I think it was one of the last Ren Fairs that was done in Pembroke Field, I think. This is another of that young woman that I had photographed. This is a little boy that this was taken on the Brown Quad. I used to work at the Brown Photo Lab back when they had one in the 80s and this is one of my coworker’s sons, a really cute little kid. And this was one of the ballerinas from Festival Ballet. And this was a guy who was in a band with my, uh, I have an ex-husband who was in a local band in Rhode Island, and I had photographed him because he had a great face. And, these weren’t taken in Rhode Island, but… this was taken in Boston. I’ll mention it because I was sitting near the stage, I had gotten really close and I was sitting behind the monitor and I had bent down to check my camera when I had sat back up somebody had jumped over my head and I broke my tooth on the monitor, so I got a great picture. ::gestures to tooth:: This one’s not real. And then this was after the Ren Fair, I was sitting on the steps, I was sitting on the sidewalk in Providence waiting for the bus and these two old ladies started going like back and forth and I was just taking pictures of them. It was great. And these are more for the Festival Ballet. They were doing an inventory of their crowns; they were taking headshots of all the different crowns that they would use for performances. And that was a dog I had that died. He was cute. And these were some pictures I had taken at Brown graduation back when Stevie Wonder had gotten an honorary degree, so that’s Stevie Wonder right there. And that’s the portfolio. And then when I knew that I was going into the Air Force I had, I was really kind of at a loose end in my life, I had gone through a year of Rhode Island College, and I was having, I didn’t really get along with my family too well, I just, you know my mother had different goals for me than I did, I just couldn’t seem to latch onto anything. I decided to join the military; the stupidest thing, because I just didn’t know what else to do. So I unfortunately I had decided to join and I had signed the paperwork and then it took them 9 months to find a job for me. So what you do is you don’t go in until they have a job. And during that whole time, of course, my whole life changed, but when I knew I was going, I took some of the best pictures I had taken and I created by own photozine of all these um, pictures that I had done, and this, this particular person was in a band called the Idle Rich. I just made it up, I did all these pictures and I had them all screened so that they would photocopy really well, and I did all these like local bands and stuff like that, so. I put a lot of, at the time, there was no Photoshop, there was no digital pictures, there was no, you know they didn’t have scanners or anything; it was me just getting the pictures screened so that they photocopied well. I don’t even think we found, I don’t even think there was a computer, you know, we didn’t have computers in the house at the time, this was probably the mid-80s, so you know, I just wanted to go out with a bang. I had been doing, I had done some album covers for some local bands and I had done some stuff for like, both in Boston, and here, I had done some small punk magazines. I would sell pictures to them and I decided to just take the best of them and make my own, so, that’s what these are. You probably don’t need to go through all of them.

[00:14:55]

LT: So what did you do with those, um, photozine, did you distribute it, or…

CC: I did, I photocopied it and then I paid for it all and then photocopied it and sold a bunch to some local record stores so that they could, um, like Tom’s Tracks. I don’t know if Tom’s Tracks is still open. There was In Your Ear and Tom’s Tracks and they both used to be on Thayer Street. So, I had sold some to them and they would sell them to people who came it. And they were all sold, they were all, I didn’t have any left over, so it was a successful venture, I think. I had even taken pictures of, I don’t know if you know who Henry Rawlins is, he used to be in a band called Black Flag, but if you watch VH1 or Independent Film Channel now, he’s usually a talking head in it, and he’s gone from being a punk rock guy to almost like a media darling. I think his old self probably would slap his new self. ::HAHAHAHA:: But sometimes, I’d like to! You know, so I did, I took these pictures and would try and sell them or get them to people who were interested in these kinds of things. This was a band that I took pictures of at the Living Room, they were called Nig Heist, they actually performed on stage completely naked. And one of these guys from another band, the Idle Rich, was so indignant that he got up and started punching them, and he was thrown out of the club and they continued to play naked. So, I don’t know why he was so upset by it. It seemed like such a goofy thing, like who cares! If they don’t care that they’re naked, I don’t care that they’re naked. And it was an all ages’ show, but yeah, he got really upset by it. So yeah, a little bit of Living Room History.

[00:16:53]

LT: So, then what happened? Did you keep photographing?

CC: Photographing. After I came back from the military, I started doing a lot with the Festival Ballet and you know, there wasn’t just a lot of bands around anymore. I had, I had, gotten married and divorced in a very brief period of time. I had gotten married to a local musician. And I used to go to clubs before I got married, I used to go to clubs all the time, to meet people. Not like, um, the clubs, I shouldn’t say clubs, I used to go to see bands all the time. I didn’t go to clubs to hang out and get drunk and get laid. I went to see bands all them time to take pictures of them. And I had met what was to become by ex-husband. And it was interesting. After he and I had started dating, I just completely stopped going to clubs, I lost my taste for it. And he was always going to clubs, because he was in a band, and so he was playing in a band all the time and I would go see him occasionally, but I was absolutely disinterested completely. And I think I just started reading a lot more and I suppose maturing a little. Not that I didn’t think being a photographer was mature, but we didn’t, we were moving in different directions, and I think I saw going to see bands, going to see bands as something that was, I needed to evolve from, that I needed to start doing something else, and I felt that I wasn’t photographing as much as I had been. And I think also, that film had gotten really expensive. I had been working in photo labs for quite a while so I could get film developed for free and discounts on film and everything. Once I couldn’t do that anymore, than it really became cost prohibitive, because of course there were no digital cameras at the time. And I really wanted to get a real job, too. Like I still wanted to pursue a career in art and I had been going to RISD at night and wanted to be a painter, so I realized in order to continue to go to school at night, I needed to get a good job during the day. So that was my goal, I needed to get a good job during the day so I could go to art school at night. And I ended up going to Katherine Gibbs to get a secretarial degree, like I was thinking, just get this job, and then I can do this stuff. And that, and I did, I went to Katherine Gibbs and I did really well and got a series of secretarial jobs, but during the course of that time my marriage completely fell apart, because my ex-husband didn’t want somebody who wanted a job and go to school he wanted somebody to go to the clubs and do that sort of thing. But I just really, with him it was a bad marriage and I had just lost my taste for it, and I didn’t want to do that. He hadn’t wanted a family, he just wanted to be in a band and go to clubs. So we divorced, uh, a year and a half after we got married. And uh, and I just, I think also in retrospect, too, that I had thought of going to Katharine Gibbs to get a good job and then I could continue this art, but I think what ended up happening too is that I got caught in a cycle of, ok, you didn’t get a higher education degree, you got a secretarial certificate, so you can do this sort of work, and it’s really hard to break out of that. So I think if I had been smarter about it at the time I probably would have gotten my butt back in college, picked a liberal arts program and just tried to do something with that, and gotten a really good job, instead of a good enough job, so that I could continue to be an artist.

[00:20:33]

LT: So, but have you continued with that? With your painting?

CC: I you, know, I haven’t continued with the painting, and I don’t, I don’t know why. And it’s funny because I so desperately wanted to go to school and I wanted so desperately to have a job so I could like be a painter, but I think I was starting to realize that even with the photography that there just wasn’t any money in it. And I ended up getting a job at RISD, of all places, and was continuing with some of the night school there, and of course, I could go free, so it just seemed like this was perfect. It was like that be careful for what you wish for, because as soon as I got there and began to take these classes, I was like, this isn’t what I want. It was really odd. Um, and I think that’s probably been what’s been part of my problem, or you know, my life story, is that I’ve been so untethered, for most of my life, and um, so even though I could work at RISD and go to school for free, I lost my taste for painting. It was a really strange thing, and what I decided to do, I really wanted to finish my bachelors, so I started going to Providence College at night to complete my bachelor’s degree. And, uh, I was going through just different emotional issues, still not a person who has a lot of friends or a good family life. And my father was also dying. We had hooked up when I was like 22 and then he died about 6 years later, so it was just kind of this emotional rollercoaster of me trying to find a person to spend my life with, not really having friends to tether me or to socialize with and not really having any kind of career direction, so I just was really this person trying to, it’s almost like jumping from flower to flower and tasting a whole bunch of different things, but never really being satisfied with anything. So… I uh, I was going to Providence College and then I met the man who is now my husband and also in the meantime I got involved with Paganism and Wicca and Witchcraft and that was something that really tethered me and really kind of focused me and I spent a lot of time learning about it and got in with a group and went through a bunch of magical – a series of what they call initiations, where you learn more and are considered like an initiated witch. So that, that kind of gave me a little of stability of all things, because it gave me kind of a spiritual focus and something to work towards that really was for me and meant something to me and also in the process I was meeting my husband and we have a family. And I took some time off from PC to raise my kids and now that they’re, they’re still young, but I’m back at school finishing and I should be done in a couple of years, so I’m really excited about that.

LT: So what are you studying now?

[00:23:47]

CC: I’m studying, I when I went back to school I really wanted be an anthropologist, because when I was taking anthropology classes, one of my professors said you can’t be an anthropologist in the culture that you’re living in, you have to kind of be, you study people outside the culture, because if you’re in the culture you’re participating in it, rather than being able to study it. And one of the themes in my life is that I’ve never felt a part of any culture, so I always felt like I was studying people, mostly I felt like I was looking for ways to fit in, but I also felt like I was also trying to see how people interacted, because I never really got it. I was always like, is this normal, is that normal? It was always kind of strange for me. But then I got kind of scared off, which kind of stupid, but it shows my kind of youth or immaturity because people would be like, oh, they’re backstabbers in anthropology and they steal each other’s papers and you know, like higher education is the wrong place to be, there’s always fighting and backbiting and I thought, ok, I’m not a competitive person like that, so maybe I won’t do this, but I think now, as I’ve grown up, well, you know, maybe those are just isolated incidents or something. And I thought, maybe it’s like that, maybe it’s not, but I never really gave it a chance and so I think that was probably part of the reason why I had gotten through a portion of my degree program and then I just stopped, because I didn’t know what the hell I wanted to do.

But we wanted to have kids, so I started a family and then um, I was taking an astrology class and the astrologer had done my chart and she said you need to finish your degree, you need to do this, because your life is gonna be right until you do. So, I was like, I hadn’t even thought about doing that so, I said ok. I was in like a really bad period of this emotional roller coaster that I put myself through, so I decided to enroll back in school and it was true, everything just started to settle down for me again. So now I’m back at PC and I’m getting a bachelor of science and my concentration is this leadership program, which is actually kind of awesome, cause it, it just fulfills… it fulfills me. For a person like me, it’s not just like any humanities degree or anything, it’s just this program is, has a lot of practical application for me as a person. To see how to get things done, I guess. But, but during this time also, this kind of lower layer of me trying to find myself, I worked at RISD for a long time, I worked at RISD for about 5 and a half years in the President’s office, and I was there when um, Tom Shooty was there, and then he resigned, and then we had an interim president, and then we had Roger Mandel, who is there now.

And um, I left after about 2 and a half years, because, unfortunately RISD is a small college and it didn’t have, it doesn’t have, the opportunity that Brown has and I ended up getting another, I got married and I ended up going to England for a little while to be with my husband’s family, because he’s British and then I started working at AT Cross for a little but because I was just unfocused and the I ended up getting a job at a local manufacturing company and I was there for about 4 or 5 years and I became their quality assurance manager, which was just something I loved, because they made solder and you had to follow rules, you had to be structured, and this was how things were done, and this was how things went out, and I really liked that. But then, there was a lot of trouble and the marked slowed down and people weren’t buying anything, and unfortunately, their let their quality assurance department go, because that was, it wasn’t a money making department, so I found myself wondering just what I am going to do? I didn’t want to go back to being a secretary or assistant, but that was the fastest way of getting a job, a good job, and I ended up working in Boston for a little while and decided to you know, coming back to Providence, because it was hard for my kids, and I came here, and I’ve been here for about 3 years.

[00:28:01]

LT: So, what do you do here?

CC: I’m an executive assistant, so I ended up staying in the uh, in this type of work, because of what I always thought I wanted to do: have a job that pays my bills and then do what I want to do on my off time. So, I support a few of the managers in the office and it’s, you know Brown is actually an excellent employer. And it’s a, Brown’s an excellent place to be, but, you know, a job’s a job, and it has its good days and bad days. We’re a small office and some of the interpersonal relationships are a little tense at times, because, you know, if some people don’t care for each other then, you know, the whole office feels it and it vibrates throughout, and I just try and think you know, if you’re gossiping, then you don’t have enough work to do. So, I try to keep to myself most of the time. And I think that goes back to being in high school, like not really being connected to anybody. I’m not really connected to anybody here, as like making any friends. I just try and do my thing and be pleasant and then go home and have my life. So that’s kind of what I think here, of like work in general?

[00:29:11]

LT: So are you still like, working on your degree? Or are you?

CC: I am. No, I’m still working. I have a couple more years left to go, this semester’s over this week, so I’m really excited about that, who-hoo! And I’m taking classes this summer, because unfortunately, with um, the leadership program, all the classes that I need to fulfill for the core are not offered all the time throughout the year, so when they come up I just have to grab it and take it at that time. Uh, and I also run, a, I work with a couple of other women and we have a local, I couldn’t quite call it a coven, but it’s a working group for pagans. We hold open circles at the First Unitarian Church at the corner of Benefit and Benevolent. So, we spend a lot of time having rituals and doing outreach and having a lot of classes, public and private to educate people in uh, you know any kind of pagan practitions, practice, you know, that kind of thing. So that’s what I end up doing at night, and, you know. Raise my kids. And I’ve actually gotten back into photography. I’d love to have a darkroom, but I think you know, paper and chemicals are really kind of cost-prohibitive, so I find myself taking a lot of pictures with a digital camera all the time and then editing it out. So I feel like that kind of came back to me. Although I’d like to use, I prefer to use a regular camera, but I just use what I can to take pictures and do photography.

[00:30:48]

LT: So how old are your kids now?

CC: My kids, my oldest is gonna be 9 this month and my youngest is 5 and a half. And we live in Cumberland, one of them is in the Cumberland public school system, and the little guy is still in preschool because he wasn’t old enough to go this September. They’re very cute little boys. And my husband is at Brown at well. He had gotten his PhD here, PhD in English, but he works at the Women Writer’s Project. And he uh, he loves his job. His job, like I always laugh and say his office is like this little utopia, great people work there, and there’s no real boss. He really likes his job. Well, he has a boss, but it’s not kind of structured, with this hierarchy that can be prohibitive. He has a boss and she lets him so his thing, and he reports to her and they get their work done. So it’s kinda this utopia for an office.

[00:31:55]

LT: So is that like really hard on you guys, like commuting into the city everyday?

CC: You know, it’s not, because Cumberland is only like 20, 25 minutes away, we’re right off the highway. If we were in a different part of Cumberland, it would be a lot harder. And his job is really flexible, he, we each take a boy, I take Evan to daycare and Paul puts Ben on the bus, so uh, we end up working out a routine that’s fine for us. And he has a little more flexibility, when he can come and so, so he picks up the kids from school. And actually, we have a great family, we have a nice home life and I think that’s, my beginnings were really rocky and feeling untethered and as I’ve gotten older, I’ve just fallen into the things that I’ve wanted. Like I’ve got a stable family and husband and I’ve got these two little boys and even though I’m pagan I’ve joined the Unitarian church with the kids and I’ve signed them up for Sunday school and I’ve become very involved with the Unitarian church as openly as a Pagan and you don’t have to sign anything else away and they accept me for who I am and will help promote our group in the church. And I like this idea of being in this kind of Christian environment and doing something really Pagan, something that might be considered blasphemous and the Unitarians are like yeah, whatever, our new minister’s coming, we’ll make sure he goes to your circle. And that’s been a really good thing, too. My life’s kinda settled as I’ve gotten older and uh, I’m hoping, I don’t know what, career-wise anything’s gonna bring. Cause I thought when I was a quality assurance manager I’d NEVER be a secretary or an assistant again. Not that it’s a bad thing, but it’s not glamorous and it doesn’t make a lot of money and people, like you’re supporting people instead of like leading and doing this sort of thing. But, um. So I’m not sure what’ll happen in the future, but I’m open to, once I finish my degree, I’m hoping that a job will open up that I’ll just be perfect for.

[00:34:11]

LT: So what kind of job do you think that you’re gonna be looking for?

CC: I um, I think I’d like to stay with the non-profits, because I just feel like I, I wanna do, things that are good for the world, and I’m not, although of course I’d like to make enough money to support me and my family, I’m not looking for a job for money, um I’d like it to have flexibility, but I’d just like to find a cause that I could work towards and promote and I’m hoping something environmental or with kids, um, educational, or educating, minorities, just wanting to take whatever passion and energy I have, and hopefully, skill, and just give it to somebody, give it to a job that is meaningful. I don’t know what that is! Which is my problem, it’s been like my whole life I don’t know what to do! But I keep saying to my children, no matter what, you finish your education, you finish it while you’re young, because you don’t wanna be a 40 year old person and not done and not sure of where you’re going, you wanna take care of it now. Because life is gonna pile things on you and you’re just gonna feel overwhelmed by it and you’ve just gotta take care of things while you’re young. And the thing is, the kind of silver lining for me is, that I’m really kind of enjoying school this time around. Even from, you know, 8 years ago when I stopped going, the Providence College program has changed, even like, the senior program at night, is very different, there’s a lot of variety, there’s a lot of choice, the teachers are awesome, so I have found that I’m getting a lot out of it, probably more, certainly more than I got out of it when I went to RIC. I didn’t know what the hell I wanted to do, and you know, now I’m really enjoying school, and putting a lot into it and doing well, because, you know, I needed that time to mature and figure out that taking classes mattered to me. I think that when I was in high school, it didn’t. My parents had no involvement in my life really, so they didn’t know what I was getting for grades, or what I was doing in school, the just didn’t really care, they were busy having a dysfunctional marriage. So, uh, I was just kinda left on my own to do my own thing and work a lot. I was working way too much for someone in high school because then I wasn’t getting my work done and I was in this abusive relationship. You know, I just wasn’t, when I was getting ready for college I just wasn’t prepared. Because I didn’t know what that meant to be on my own and taking care of classes, and all that, I just didn’t know what I was doing. And so, now I’m in a better place to appreciate my education and try and direct it to things that I might be interested in. You know.

[00:37:08]

LT: So what do you see yourself doing with the photography now?

CC: Well I’ve been um, trying to photograph our circles, for our… we have a group called Gais Hearth and we have a website and I took some pictures at our last circle and I put those up. You know, I don’t know, um, I went to the beach with my kids last week and I took about 100 pictures of the ocean. You know, just the different waves, but you know, I took that break different than that break and then I ended up just keeping every single one of them as screen savers. You know, I don’t know. There was a time like I had stopped taking pictures for years. Just didn’t take any, any pictures. And it wasn’t until I had kids that I was like well; you know I want to record their growing up. So I had just lost my taste for it, again. These things I just get so wrapped up in and then just stop doing. So I don’t know what now. I think now I’m just in it for the pleasure. I think part of the problem is that I just don’t see the digital camera as an artistic tool and I know with different software I can make it more artistic, you know, as the technology advances, and I can play with the lenses. I mean, I had my regular camera was one that didn’t have any kind of batteries in it, which meant it was fully manual, you know there’s no, not even a light sensor, nothing. And I just knew my F-stops and my exposures and everything, my film speeds; I was just really in tuned with what it was to have a completely manual camera. The digital camera, I just haven’t found it, because I don’t like the lack of control. So, for me it’s less about art and more like, color, I think merging colors and light, but I haven’t found it’s artistic uses yet. And I keep trying to find that perfect picture of the moon, and I can’t seem to find, can’t take a perfect picture of the moon with my little digital camera, so I keep trying to do that. But I suppose, I think these things kind of emerge back for me. I keep thinking I’ll go back into painting, but I don’t see that happening, I just don’t, I think what I ended up finding in myself is that I became this strong ritual writer, just writing rituals for our Pagan holidays and found myself expressing what I needed to in writing the rituals. And I found myself expressing what I needed to say to the gods and I would construct these elaborate 6 page scripts for the group and I think I found an elaborate outlet in that. I think of the phrase for what I want to say and then having other people say it. They’re like writing little mini plays; they are mini plays. So that’s been a nice experience. I collect a lot of statues; I’m really into statues of like, Venus, and the goddesses in particular. I’ve said I’ve never met a Venus statue I didn’t like. He comes out and I’m like, well can I afford it, and where am I gonna put it? And is my husband gonna say anything when I have like another Venus statue? It kind of borders on obsession I think. So I think that instead of becoming this creator of like physical art, I found myself purchasing it more, or like doing different things like that. Like displaying it. I bought a little, I never really bought anyone else’s art before, but I bought this watercolor that’s just wonderful of this, I don’t know what it was, it was a woman, and it was her face, and she looked like an evil fairy, but it was great, it was a local artist and I was like, ohhh! My first piece of art! It was a fun thing to do. So…is there anything else you wanna ask me, or? I don’t know if there’s……I dunno.

[00:41:24]

LT: Well is there anything else that you wanna say about… any of this?

CC: I think, um ::phone call in office interrupts interview::

[00:42:23]

CC: Um, I think, you know I was really kind of excited when I took a look at what the professor was doing for the underground scene in Rhode Island and different, I dunno, subcultures that were happening. I think that’s something that really spoke to me. Like the punk movement, and the punk scene in Rhode Island and I spent a lot of time in Boston and I went to a lot of shows in Boston and it was just this, really, aggressive, but odd time, too. I think you had a lot of kids in dysfunctional lives just coming together and hearing music, and you know, doing violent dancing and then just going off and having their lives. I made some really interesting friends and some, and it was funny how so many of the kids with like Mohawks and shabbily dressed were from Barrington and their parents had gobs of money and they were just super bright and they were just looking for something different in their lives and just not happy with what was going on in the mid-80s and just finding their place. You know, I think that, you know, you could really see the culture changing then. You had like Regan in the white house and you could see just, it didn’t resonate with a lot of the youth culture and it was just that so many of these kids that I thought, you know, you just see them, they look like little punks who were just street urchins and you’d go to their houses and they just lived in these you know these huge places and were so bright about what they were doing with their future. And then you’d also meet some kids who really were on the street. So it’s this kinda weird thing in Providence. Of course, the bands, there were a lot more clubs, and then there was this club, I don’t know if it was called the Rock at first or Club Babyheads, it was all these places that you could go to see bands. It isn’t quite the same anymore. There weren’t gangs like there are now and of course, there was street violence, but not quite like the trouble they’re having at say, Diesel, now or anything like that and um, so it was fun to be a part of. But it’s sad to see how times change. Like even, there’s not even local record stores anymore, like if I wanted to make a fanzine now, I wouldn’t have any place to sell it other than the Internet. There’s not a lot of small little businesses that would carry them anymore. So…

[00:45:13]

LT: So, you think it was more the music itself, or the community?

CC: A lot of these kids seemed to know each other; so I think there would be groups of kids who would come in from different places like particularly Newport and Barrington. They would be in bands and they’d carry their little entourage, so they would all have this community where they knew each other. Like, I know I was drawn to the music at first and was looking for a community to be a part of, and unfortunately, I was the only person that I knew of in North Providence that was going to punk shows. So, I never really fit in as well. I dated in and out of the circles, but never really latched onto anybody in particular, so… I think, um. Also everybody was evolving to. They were either in college or going to college and you know, as time grew on they were graduating and getting jobs. There didn’t seem to be any younger generation taking out place, so everything just fizzled out, I guess.

[00:46:20]

LT: So, was it mostly local bands or people coming in on tour?

CC: There was kinda a combination of both local bands and people coming in. The local bands, were um, they seemed to have a lot of heart and dedication, uh, and then there would be like headlining bands that would come and bring the crowds to the clubs. Um, they were fun. There was some bands like Vicious Circle and Verbal Assault, the Idle Rich, and the Proletarian Warriors, like all these kind of angry young men shouting and thrashing and playing their guitars loud and fast. But, they were young, and they were excited about something and you, know, had a voice, where they couldn’t, not that they necessarily had oppressive parents, but it wasn’t something that you lived in, you know, it was something that you went to, I suppose.

[00:47:15]

LT: So how was it different in Providence than in Boston?

CC: Um, in Boston I think they had um, their local bands seemed to be older in a lot of ways. And more established, there were a lot more places to play. I think, also, Boston drew bigger names, they could probably afford more. So you had, um, you had more put together shows, you had, you know, local bands who seemed to be more organized about what they were doing. And you had Providence, it felt like sometimes you felt like you were in somebody’s basement, you know, watching, some of these kids really were just practicing in their basement and then going to the Living Room, you didn’t have like the um, I don’t want to say sophistication, but they weren’t as practiced as some of the Boston bands. You actually had to know how to play in Boston, that kind of thing. And you know, because I think they had to go around and submit tapes or let the club listen to some music before you were booked, where I don’t think that the Living Room always did that. I remember seeing some kids who would like have their lyrics in front of them, sitting down and trying to figure out their songs. You know, you don’t like paying money to see that. But it was funny to watch. You know, there was a lot of disorganization, I think, with the scene for a while.

[00:48:35]

LT: So was it mostly men musicians?

CC: I would say, yes. I would say I can’t think of, other than, what’s that girl band?... From Newport? Darn, I can’t remember their names. There was one, but they weren’t even, they weren’t even punk. But yeah, 99% of it was gonna be young men with no hair and you know, kinda baggy jeans, just playing, yeah, there was very few women. And sometimes there would be a front woman, but not, not usually. It was very male-dominated. But there were a lot of women in the audience, you know, either because it was their boyfriend up there, or they wanted a boyfriend, or you know, that was the thing, there always seemed to be a lot of girls in the crowd, even if they weren’t onstage.

[00:49:31]

LT: Ok, well, that’s about it.

CC: Okay.

[00:49:41]